Eamonn Fitzgerald's Rainy Day

Do you believe that Islam is an evil religion? Some of your subtle generalisations here are disturbing, but maybe I am just not interpreting this correctly.

Murray: were you asking that of Eamonn, or of Abdel Rahman al-Rashed?

Murray

No, I do not believe that Islam is an evil religion. But, as Abdel Rahman al-Rashed has pointed out, evil things are being done in its name today all over the world. It's good to to see al-Rashed saying this, but other Muslims must speak up, too. We've had to wait far too long for al-Rashed's article. After all, it's been three years since 9/11. Maybe an Al-Jazeera executive will add his voice to this debate now. It's well overdue, in my opionion. After all, it's one thing to screen footage of throat cutting; it's another to call these people murderers. And Al-Jazeera refuses to do that.

As long as these obscene killings are being done in the name of Islam, we have the right to demand that those who are this religion's authorities condemn terror and barbarism. Is that unreasonable?

Eamonn

Rainy Day
Dream Away

It's men like al-Rashed that offer hope to the Islamic world, as well as other liberal Muslims like Salman Rushdie, Irshad Manji, the late Ayatollah al-Hakim (murdered by Al-Qaeda in the bombing in Najaf last August) and many bloggers we know of (Mahmood of Bahrain, Zaydoun from Kuwait, and Zeyad, Alaa, Omar and his brothers, and Ays of Iraq).

Mary Cumming:

Your willingness to ignore all the evidence to the contrary (a long list of atrocities carried out in the name of Islam) and your proclamation that you are "disturbed" more by the well warranted examination of this religion than, Beslan for example, betrays much about your character.

Are you familiar at all with the history of Islam? From its inception in the Arabian Peninsula 14 centuries ago until today, we are seeing Islam rapidly consume all other religions, cultures and territories in its relentless Jihad to win the world for Allah.

Now I can go on about the (sorry to say) bloody history of Islam and bore you, as it seems perfectly clear you are not disturbed by what Islam is. I will simply conclude that you are perfectly content living in woeful ignorance of an ideological movement that is sweeping the globe and may actually transform Europe in our lifetimes.

Thant being said, reform is absolutelyu necessary, but unlikely as the Koran represents the perfect revelation of Allah's word. Any modifications and reform is met by charges of apostacy and fatwahs issued condeming the apostate to death. Islam, Mary, has not changed and cannot reform when you consider the basic tennants of it's theological structure.

So Mary, please don't be disturbed by "subtles" indicating to you bias against islam. You would present more admirable qualities by actually addressing the very real and undeniable character of the cause you champion. A cause which unfortunately exhibits elements of what Western civilisation used to call evil.

Religion is not a living creature. Religion is human's creation. It's a human that shapes and interprets it as it suits him, and so the responsibility of its interpretation is solely his.

Eamonn wrote:
> we have the right to demand that those
> who are this religion's authorities
> condemn terror and barbarism.

Actually, I don't think there has been any shortage of condemnation from Islamic leaders. But that's not a populist issue that gets a lot of attention in the western non-muslim press.

I suspect that muslims are dismayed every time someone asks them if they are against Islamists terrorism. What's the arabic for "Well, duh?"?

Andrew, try replacing "Islam" with "religion" in your text. All religions are open to interpretation and misuse, but people fundamentally want a better world for their children. Your generalisations and stereotypes might make you feel more sure about who you are, but your hate will not give you peace.

Murray: what do you think of Abdel Rahman al-Rashed's generalizations? Is he demonstrating hate? Is he entitled to make his generalizations?

Mary Cummings. Your tired played-out defense of Islam by equating it essentially to a benign inert religion on equal footing with other religions blatantly ignores the historic record.

Obviously you cannot address the issue of the violent nature of Islam for reasons known only to yourself, but intellectual honesty is a good place for you to start.

Pathetic code-words like "generalizations? and "stereotypes" are laughable. Asserting that other people are full of "hate" to stifle well warranted questions about the "religion of peace" is despicable on your part.

Many are tired of people like you using intellectual gymnastics to justify and defend the indefensible and obscure reality. Do you think people are unable to see for themselves who the perpetrators of almost daily atrocities are?

Championing the cause of the downtrodden makes you ?feel? warm and fuzzy all over, doesn?t it? But there is an ancient Arab tale of the Scorpion and the Frog you should read. You Mary are the frog.

Equally laughable is your untrue assertion above "All people fundamentally want a better world for their children". Mary, you obviously are unaware that assigning Western values to all civilizations is itself an untenable "Generalization" and so let me educate you.

The Palestinian Authority has instituted programs of anti-Semitic hatred in their school programs beginning in the earliest level onward. Do you know that their children are programmed to become "martyrs" in suicide attacks against the people of Israel in large numbers? Do some of the parents of these children want them to have a better life?

You Mary Cummings, feel comfortable dwelling in the grey moral morasses of non-judgementalism and political correctness. You cannot bring yourself to face the awful truth about that which makes you feel morally superior in asserting, that Mary Cummings is a "useful idiot?, relating to the cause of a reawakened ideological fanaticism.

You still haven?t mentioned the murdered children of Beslan.

Regards.

September 11th, 2004

Today is the third anniversary of September 11th. In Munich there was a memorial ceremony commemorating the Beslan school massacre and the attacks on America and elsewhere. The event was organized by the Center for Russian culture in Munich. Russian Ambassador, Karacheutsev spoke about the level of terror all around the world today. Other featured speakers were the American Ambassador to Germany, Matthew M. Rooney, several Russian orthodox clergy, one from Siberia and a leader of the Moslem community in Munich.

There were about 150 people, mostly from the Russian community, assembled in front of the Feldherrnhalle. Many were holding candles and listening to the speeches from clergy and officials. Early speakers discussed the September 11th attacks and related them to the world wide scourge of terrorism and especially the murder of the innocent children in Beslan last week.

When the Moslem leader spoke, he quickly politicized the speech by criticizing ?those who use torture and humiliation also are guilty of terrorism?, an obvious jab at the US and ?You can be lucky that nothing like that (Beslan) has not happened here (in Munich) yet?. His speech was then concluded with a prayer, Surah 1, in Arabic, to the assembled crowd of Russians and Germans. Also present were relatives of the victims of the Beslan massacre. One German lady commented that she did not like the tone or content of his speech.

The Russian Orthodox clergy then went up and spoke about terrorism and even identified it. Terrorism is ?sin? and it is in all of us. The Moslem community representative in his earlier speech wanted to stress that Munich Moslems are peaceful and are ?extending their hand?. No mention of the word ?Islam? was made by any speakers.

The conclusion of the memorial service was marked by a beautiful prayer session which lasted about 15 minutes. The beautiful Russian prayers (sung and spoken in German, not Arabic, for all to understand) were sublime and very touching.

The beauty of the prayer sung alternately by the orthodox clergyman from Siberia and 2 women with beautiful soprano voices, resonated from the monument to the German war dead (where Hitler often spoke from in his rise to dictator), with great beauty and solemn sincerity.

Andrew2

http://www.mir-ev.de/ (Russian center in Munich)

Murray Cumming.

I do apologize for my above post, specifically for calling you "Mary".

regards